# Is it possible to have V1 greater then Vr?

According to wikipedia, decision speed ($V_1$) is computed taking into account the runway length (and other parameters). If an aircraft uses a long runway (one listed here), there may be enough runway available to stop an aircraft rejecting takeoff at high speed. Thus $V_1$ can be higher than usual, perhaps greater than $V_r$ or $V_2$. Is the situation where $V_1$ is greater than $V_r$ possible?

I think the answer is no.

If you think about V1 as primarily based on runway length, it is certainly possible for an aircraft to easily reach Vr long before reaching the "point of no return" as far as stopping distance is concerned.

However, you must also consider the meaning of Vr. This is when the aircraft is going to rotate. After rotation and leaving the ground, the distance required to still stop on that same runway increases significantly. For this reason, maximum V1 is generally considered to be Vr (see this discussion).

In large aircraft, rejecting a takeoff after leaving the ground is generally discouraged, unless the pilot feels that the plane could be uncontrollable. It's much safer to continue the takeoff and fly for a normal approach. However, it can happen.

In smaller aircraft, it's more reasonable for the aircraft to take off and then land safely (I'm thinking a C172 on one of the low density altitude runways you linked to).

• For smaller aircrafts operating on way oversized strips it is different. Still, mine is a "niptcking"reasoning. – Caterpillaraoz Nov 24 '17 at 14:16
• The "this discussion" link goes to the airliners.net forum homepage. – Sean May 4 '19 at 21:05
• @Sean thanks for the correction and heads up on the link. FYI, I'm fixing them by searching the link on the wayback machine, then googling some of the text to find the new location. – fooot May 4 '19 at 22:14

Simply no

Rotation comes always after decision :)