I am a newly certificated private pilot. Am I able to log instrument flight time with another pilot in an airplane that I am not type rated for if we were to enter IMC conditions?
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2 Answers
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not type rated for
Assuming the aircraft requires a type rating, no. There are some circumstances that you can log time in an aircraft you are not rated for (solo, dual received, etc.), but none of them would apply to your circumstances, unless the other pilot is a CFII with the proper ratings providing you training.
If the aircraft does not require a type rating and you are rated in the category and class, then you can log PIC time and actual instrument time for the period where you are sole manipulator of the controls. The other pilot must be acting as PIC, but can only log any time they take the controls for.
It is probably not wise to do this. A CFII is trained to recover from their students trying their best to kill them. That is not part of the curriculum for an instrument rating.
If you choose to do this, you should annotate your log with a description of your circumstances. Seeing actual IMC that is not dual received will raise some eyebrows. The explanation that you chose to fly into IMC with an non-CFII pilot acting as PIC but chose not to hand over the controls to them may or may not cause those eyebrows to lower.
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$\begingroup$ Thank you. I’m reading the regs and just building scenarios for myself and wanted better understanding. Thank you $\endgroup$ Commented Aug 14, 2023 at 1:47
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$\begingroup$ No dispute with your answer, and I think the OP doesn't actually mean "type rated" (instead he means cat/class). Also, the "Walker" legal interpretation describes a scenario under which a pilot not receiving instruction can log PIC while IMC and manipulating the controls. Probably not going to cause any raised eyebrows. Also, perhaps you should use the acronym CFI-A/I (or similar) instead of CFII because a CFII-only cannot give instruction without the appropriate category rating on his/her CFI cert. Just my two cents. Upvoted. $\endgroup$– user22445Commented Aug 14, 2023 at 4:31
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$\begingroup$ @RTO Possibly, but one of OP's recent questions asks about receiving flight training in an Airbus, so it could go either way. I added a bit about the CFII having proper ratings, which should cover them being a CFI-A and also being rated in type and class. $\endgroup$– ChrisCommented Aug 14, 2023 at 4:43
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If you enter IMC on a VFR flight plan, you're already in trouble.
If you file an IFR flight plan without an Instrument Rating, you're also in trouble.
If the other pilot is both Instrument Rated and Current, have them file and fly. Any time he hands the controls over to you, you can gain experience, but you best NOT log it as IFR without an Instrument Rating.
If you choose to pursue your instrument rating, you will build the requisite hours by flying with your CFII, a Safety Pilot (no IMC!), or Solo (no instrument work while flying solo!).
It's all about learning the skills, not flying in IMC.
That said, a wise CFII will find time to give their students some actual time in IMC for good, real-world practice.
Mine did, and it helped a good deal.
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$\begingroup$ Assuming that the "other pilot" has an instrument rating and is current, the OP can "log" PIC time while being the sole manipulator of the controls if the OP has an "airplane" category rating and the appropriate "class" rating [sel/mel] (assuming that a type rating is not at issue). The OP can also log actual "instrument" time while manipulating the controls. If a "type rating" is involved then the OP could not log "PIC" or "instrument" flight time. See the Walker interpretation $\endgroup$– user22445Commented Aug 14, 2023 at 22:05
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$\begingroup$ In addition, my comment above assumes that the "other pilot" has received an IFR clearance and is not flying IMC without it. $\endgroup$– user22445Commented Aug 14, 2023 at 22:11