Timeline for What stops a pilot from flying VFR and going IFR?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
17 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Jan 29, 2020 at 22:50 | comment | added | Michael Hall | @jcaron, if you are uncomfortable with that you can always do an immelmann. ;) | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 22:07 | comment | added | jcaron | “execute a level 180 degree turn to exit the cloud” and oh oh there’s a mountain in that cloud :-( | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 18:45 | comment | added | Michael Hall | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 18:44 | comment | added | Michael Hall | @StephenS - Then ask it. I am perfectly clear on the answer. You are contradicting yourself by claiming that my quoted statement is untrue for uncontrolled airspace, yet also claiming that ATC can't grant a clearance in uncontrolled airspace. I think you are probably confusing IFR with IMC, but you haven't provided enough logic behind your responses for me to challenge that or correct you. Please clarify your position, or stop arguing with me. | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 18:35 | comment | added | StephenS | @MichaelHall That's probably worth its own question. | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 7:05 | comment | added | Michael Hall | @StephenS - I agree that ATC cannot grant an IFR clearance in uncontrolled airspace. That being true, how could you fly IFR in uncontrolled airspace? Because "by definition", in order to be operating under IFR you must have a clearance. (please re-read my definitions of IFR and IMC above before answering if necessary...) | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 5:48 | comment | added | StephenS | @MichaelHall You said "By definition it is not possible to fly under IFR without the knowledge and consent of ATC." That is only correct in controlled airspace. ATC can't grant you an IFR clearance in uncontrolled airspace, and there is no requirement to even notify them. | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 5:06 | comment | added | Michael Hall | @StephenS, is there something in what I have said that leads you to believe that I don't understand that? I am agreeing with you! ammPilot directly inferred above that you could operate under an instrument flight rules clearance in class G without ATC even knowing that you were cleared. I refute that, but rather than simply declare him wrong I did it in a questioning way to challenge him to examine his rationale for saying what he said. | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 4:50 | comment | added | StephenS | @MichaelHall You can't get an ATC clearance in uncontrolled airspace; that's literally what the term means. This isn't obvious in CONUS, which has very little class G, but notice the phrasing "upon entering controlled airspace" when departing class G airports: your IFR clearance does not actually begin until you get to (at least) class E. | |
| Jan 29, 2020 at 1:17 | vote | accept | George Clooney In a Mooney | ||
| Jan 28, 2020 at 20:23 | history | edited | Michael Hall | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 28, 2020 at 20:18 | comment | added | Michael Hall | P.S. When I was instructing I would hear students occasionally use the term "inadvertent IFR". When they did, I would ask them how they might accidentally pick up a clearance limit, route, altitude, and squawk. But I did it with a friendly twinkle in my eye to emphasize that it was a learning point! ;) | |
| Jan 28, 2020 at 20:09 | history | edited | Michael Hall | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 28, 2020 at 20:04 | comment | added | Michael Hall | How would you be operating on an IFR clearance without the knowledge and consent of ATC? Anywhere? Or are you confusing IFR and IMC? | |
| Jan 28, 2020 at 19:55 | history | edited | Michael Hall | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jan 28, 2020 at 19:51 | comment | added | ammPilot | "…it is not possible to fly under IFR without the knowledge and consent of ATC." True in controlled airspace, not true in uncontrolled airspace (that is, Class G airspace). You might still be violating FAR 91.13 (careless and reckless), though, if you're in G in IMC just cruising around and "something bad" happens. | |
| Jan 28, 2020 at 19:40 | history | answered | Michael Hall | CC BY-SA 4.0 |