I live near a small, possibly private, airport. Every day there are small planes flying low over the neighborhood in circles for over half an hour. They appear to just be flying for recreational purposes. They're also coming in and leaving low enough to be seen through the tree/wire lines and directly over houses. I have seen the airport's grass runway, and it is quite large, so I don't see why the plane wouldn't be able to just land without circling so long. Why would a pilot do this and is it legal? Also, this is not a rural area, it is a highly-populated city.
Are planes allowed to fly in circles, and is there a minimum legal altitude for takeoff and landing?
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15$\begingroup$ Which country's laws are you asking about? In the USA, this is perfectly legal. $\endgroup$– Ryan MortensenCommented Jun 26, 2020 at 21:25
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1$\begingroup$ Someone came along and edited this question to something different than what the OP was asking, so I have rolled it back. The question was about the altitude for takeoff and landing (ie. "coming in and leaving") as well as the general circling, but not generally being too low for the area. Yes, there is a statement about the area being populated, but that does not change what the question is. $\endgroup$– Ryan MortensenCommented Jun 29, 2020 at 18:16
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2$\begingroup$ “I have seen the airport's grass runway, and it is quite large...”. This is very subjective. So much so that a non-aviation person can’t really judge this properly. An airport runway 5 times the length of a football field would still be considered quite a small runway. In some locations, it would be considered downright tiny. Even a runway 10 times the length of a football field would not be considered large. In some areas (New Mexico, Colorado), it would be unusable to almost all aircraft due to its length. $\endgroup$– Dean F.Commented Apr 9, 2021 at 14:56
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$\begingroup$ When you say circle I assume you mean more of a racetrack pattern, not an actual circle, right? I have seen multiple planes in this sort of pattern, at the minimum AGL, often two at a time in the same pattern, when flying advertising banners over busy urban areas. Of course they also are flying quite slow as well! $\endgroup$– MichaelCommented Mar 12, 2023 at 0:37
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5 Answers
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Most likely there’s a flight school at the nearby airport and they are conducting dual instruction flights over your neighborhood to practice ground reference maneuvers and possibly emergency procedures. This is perfectly normal and safe.
In the United States, the following requirements for minimum safe altitudes are set for general aviation flight per 14 CFR §91.119:
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes: (a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—
(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and
(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.
So unless these guys are dropping below 500 ft AGL, they’re not doing anything unusual.
answered Jun 26, 2020 at 22:17
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1$\begingroup$ @JohnDvorak - Paragraph C is in regards to persons and property not related to the operation of the aircraft. It is similar to rules against driving on sidewalks or through playgrounds. As far as your question about helicopters, that is covered in paragraph D. That covers all helicopters. It is not specific to nor does it exclude rescue and careflight helicopters. A maintenance helicopter can hover 3-6 feet from a high tension power line tower as long as it’s done in a manner and condition that is safe. $\endgroup$– Dean F.Commented Jun 27, 2020 at 15:49
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$\begingroup$ 500 feet is very low to still allow proper care from power failure.. Especially considering power failure seldom happens out of the lbue. $\endgroup$– paul23Commented Jun 28, 2020 at 11:51
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1$\begingroup$ I have to object to the phrase "This is perfectly normal and safe." The various regs make it clear that this is "safe enough" but clearly will never be 100% safe. The minimum height stuff is intended to give an aircraft with "issues" a good chance of clearing the area, precisely because there is greater danger to those on the ground. $\endgroup$– MikeBCommented Jun 28, 2020 at 11:52
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2$\begingroup$ While 500 feet AGL is low for cruise flight, it is perfectly normal and expected on the departure leg or final approach of an airport. I’ve seen airports whose runways are a mere few feet from their property line fences. Sometimes, there will be roads and/or houses on the other side of the fence. So, depending on the distance from the runway to the house, there is a high probability that every takeoff or landing will place the airplane less than 500 feet above the house. Raising the Crossing Height above an obstacle and noise abatement are reasons for a displaced threshold. $\endgroup$– Dean F.Commented Jun 28, 2020 at 17:38
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1$\begingroup$ OP doesn't seem very familiar with aviation in general - so there's a distinct possibility OP is just seeing planes fly over, low and on final approach, instead of circling. OP might be confusing multiple Cessna's for being the same plane, or similar. $\endgroup$– SnakeDocCommented Jul 2, 2020 at 22:36
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The pilots in those planes are learning how to set up and execute a landing approach, which is a procedure in which the pilot follows a defined path through the air next to the airport with several segments in it during which the pilot has to progressively lower his or her altitude in defined steps. Then after taking off again, the pilot has to execute a pattern departure in much the same way. It is common for student pilots to go around and around the airport doing nothing but landing approaches and departures one after another for hours at a time, to build their flying skills.
Small, uncontrolled airports are popular for training operations because the small planes that use them do not get in the way of passenger jets, which would be a very significant safety issue.
Note that even the smallest Cessnas used for training purposes cost between 125 and 150 dollars an hour to operate, plus anywhere from 25 to 50 dollars an hour for the instructor. This means the pilots who spend an afternoon practicing landings and departures are not just idling about or killing time but are committed to what they are doing.
Finally, note that almost without exception, those little uncontrolled airports existed long before the suburbs that swallowed them up, so if there are safety concerns they should be directed at the developers who were allowed to hem in the airport and not the airport owner who got surrounded as the community grew.
answered Jun 26, 2020 at 20:54
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4$\begingroup$ "which means that they are not used for joyriding"... Huh? Plenty of people go for joy flights $\endgroup$– RobCommented Jun 27, 2020 at 7:07
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2$\begingroup$ but they don't shoot touch&go's for an hour just for the joy of it... $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 27, 2020 at 7:37
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7$\begingroup$ Sure they do. I and every pilot I know has done just that. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 27, 2020 at 14:09
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3$\begingroup$ I think the point is that the "joyriding" aspect is tempered by the cost. Especially if one adds in the cost of an instructor. Private pilots choose to prioritize $150/hr rental costs over the cost of computer toys, tools for the garage, high-end photography gear or other expensive hobbies, but for most there's not an unlimited supply of cash to burn up just going in circles practicing in the pattern, just to kill time. $\endgroup$– FreeManCommented Jun 27, 2020 at 15:00
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2$\begingroup$ There's also quite a bit of difference between rental costs and ownership costs. Since I've already paid for the plane, the incremental cost of flying is just gas & maintenance. And since the plane is used (often well used), it could easily cost less than the SUVs and pickups that many people think nothing of owning - and let's not even get into the cost of RVs and power boats. $\endgroup$– jamesqfCommented Jun 27, 2020 at 17:31
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As far as regulations regarding minimum altitudes, Carlo has given you the official rules. But, the key words are “Except when necessary for takeoff or landing”.
In general, airplanes will descend below 500 feet Above Ground Level about a mile or so away from the beginning of the runway, along a straight line leading up to the runway (final approach) when landing. When taking off, airplanes will generally make their turn away from the airport between 400 and 1000 feet Above Ground Level. Both student pilots and veteran pilots will practice takeoffs and landings by doing what is called a touch and go. It is a series of takeoffs, a rectangular traffic pattern back to the final approach, and landings one after another. Once the airplane lands, it immediately takes off again without stopping.
There are also maneuvers called Go-Arounds for visual procedures and Missed Approaches for instrument procedures. In both of these, the aircraft will come in for a landing. But, it will initiate a climb away from the airport without touching down. This is to simulate a rejected landing in situations when it might be too hazardous to land. Go-Arounds and Missed Approaches must also be practiced.
There are also flying maneuvers that are practiced at about 800 feet Above Ground Level in order to hone and perfect flying skills. I will include a diagram of some basic flying techniques for takeoffs and landings below to better help you understand. Also, the Airplane Flying Handbook is a good reference filled with color pictures. Specifically check out the Ground Reference Maneuvers chapter.
Also, might I suggest going to the airport and asking for a discovery flight? It will give you a better understanding of what they are doing. Flying is a perishable skill. There are many things they could be and must practice. Try having a friendly conversation to learn what those things are.
By the way, in what city is your airport? “Highly populated” might mean something different to you than it does to someone living in a city with several million people. There are community neighborhoods in my multi-million person metropolis that have runways for the use of the neighborhood. The houses have hangars as well as garages. And, the streets are more numerous because some of them are for aircraft use only (aircraft always have the right of-way).
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$\begingroup$ Interesting diagram - here in the UK we usually turn left onto crosswind at 500ft and we don't start our descent or change power settings until we're on base $\endgroup$– DanCommented Jun 27, 2020 at 16:50
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$\begingroup$ @Dan - I’ve never flown in the UK. I’ve spoken to pilots from the UK, Australia, and Germany. I’ve also done some ground training in South Africa. I think our 45° to downwind as well as our midfield crossover/flyover above TPA for a teardrop descent to downwind traffic pattern entries are fairly unique to the US as well. Flying crosswind at TPA at the DER in order to turn to join downwind seemed counterintuitive and not as safe to me. I would worry about the guy practicing Vx takeoffs and climbouts while I am entering crosswind for a landing. $\endgroup$– Dean F.Commented Jun 27, 2020 at 17:06
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$\begingroup$ @DeanF. I have to ask, where are you located? I have never heard of a place where "houses have hangars as well as garages. And, the streets are more numerous because some of them are for aircraft use only". I'd love to learn more about it. $\endgroup$– echoCommented Jun 27, 2020 at 20:35
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2$\begingroup$ @echo - Texas. We actually have airport communities. Some have houses. Some have condos and/or townhouses. Some even have two story hangars with living space on the second floor. Generally, they are Class E or G airspace. For the most part, they are nontowered. Though, they may have a small FBO/clubhouse on premises. $\endgroup$– Dean F.Commented Jun 27, 2020 at 20:43
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You said urban area, and that has an effect on things.
Crowding
Urban airports tend to be crowded out and eliminated. They are a huge piece of real estate that developers lose their minds over, and so any business weakness in the airport is usually attacked by developers aiming to cover the property with condominiums. Meanwhile governments want to turn them into recreational space - one commercial pilot, desperate to land anywhere, flew to his “old” military airbase and landed on their main runway - only to discover it had been converted to a dragstrip. His record for fastest quarter-mile stands today. And then we have NIMBYs, who labor to close airports despite knowing there was an airport there before they bought the house... present company excepted, of course.
The upshot is that the few remaining urban airports are pretty busy. You have a lot of aircraft and a lot of traffic in/out especially on nice hobby-flying days, which I presume is when you’re outside too.
Altitude maximums
The other thing about city flying is there is usually a major airport nearby. Now, airspaces are a lot like an upside-down wedding cake. Near the large airport, airspace is controlled right down to the ground. For the next ring, uncontrolled aircraft (e.g. those without expensive avionics needed to operate in controlled airspace) are allowed up to only 3000’ altitude, say. Beyond that there’s another ring, say 7000’, and finally out to 10,500’. For you, this means that small aircraft traffic is squeezed into a narrow altitude band near the ground.
Runway use
You say “It’s a really big runway, why do they need to stack up?” Because airport procedure is that only one plane gets to use the runway at a time, no matter how big it is - because stuff can go wrong. Now they do make exceptions - the military (B-52 MITO) and extreme civil ops (the huge Oshkosh fly-in). But generally, one plane at a time.
This combines with the busyness of urban small airports to make for a lot of planes in the wait pattern during busy times.
Touch-and-go’s
There’s a type of training flight called a “touch-and-go”. In this case the pilot prepares for landing in all respects, stabilizes the landing, touches down properly, then punches up the power and lifts off again. That is for the purpose of training landings and takeoffs, which are perishable skills. This creates both a landing and a takeoff situation. They probably aren’t doing this during busy times, but during un-busy times, they will jump in and try to use the spare “landing slots” as it were.
I spend time around an Air Force logistics base. They do touch-and-gos all day... with C-5 Galaxies.
answered Jun 27, 2020 at 19:43
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Besides the (safety) related minimum altitudes and air control restricted zones for traffic management aspects of environmental (wildlife) protection, noise reduction and capacity/usage hours restrictions from municipals and states are also a thing to consider.
An airport might have existed before a new city district is built, it still might have to adjust to changing land use and zoning restrictions. So it might be helpful four you to contact local gouvernements/council.
Even the FAA has something on this topic, see for example here https://www.faa.gov/airports/environmental/airport_noise/
Ideally they might just move the waiting/practice zones, give different minimum altitudes, close for certain plane types or close of training flights earlier.
