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61.195(c) states:

(c)Instrument rating. A flight instructor may conduct instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates if the following requirements are met:

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, the flight instructor must hold an instrument rating appropriate to the aircraft used for the instrument training on his or her flight instructor certificate, [...]

So as a CFI with a current instrument rating (but not yet a CFII) it appears I can provide instrument training to students working toward their Instrument Rating. I'm trying to find what limitations to this there are - what regs state when training must be from a CFII?

61.65 - Instrument rating requirements (d)(2) states:

(2) Forty hours of actual or simulated instrument time in the areas of operation listed in paragraph (c) of this section, of which 15 hours must have been received from an authorized instructor who holds an instrument-airplane rating, [...]

Throughout 61.65 it consistently states only "authorized instructor" but there is no definition for "authorized instructor" except only as in 61.1(b) which reads:

Authorized instructor means— (i) A person who holds a ground instructor certificate issued under part 61 of this chapter and is in compliance with §61.217, when conducting ground training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her ground instructor certificate; (ii) A person who holds a flight instructor certificate issued under part 61 of this chapter and is in compliance with §61.197, when conducting ground training or flight training in accordance with the privileges and limitations of his or her flight instructor certificate; or [...]

61.197 is only Renewal requirements for flight instructor certification. So by all this, it seems to me that as a CFI with an instrument rating I'm authorized to provide instrument training. There's definitely something missing here and after hours of digging through regs I just can't find any clearer definitions on this. Can anyone help provide some guidance on where it's defined as to when a CFII is required? Thanks in advance.

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  • $\begingroup$ Welcome to aviation.SE! I believe this question probably answers what you're asking. $\endgroup$ – Pondlife Mar 16 at 17:40
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No, you cannot provide

instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates

Unless you hold

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, the flight instructor must hold an instrument rating appropriate to the aircraft used for the instrument training on his or her flight instructor certificate,

Having an instrument rating on your CFI makes you a CFII.

You are confusing a CFII, who is a CFI with an instrument rating on his / her flight instructor certificate, with

someone that has an instrument rating on his / her pilot certificate and who also might hold their CFI.

You must be a CFII to give instrument training, the exception to that would be for private pilot candidates from 61.109

(3) 3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, including straight and level flight, constant airspeed climbs and descents, turns to a heading, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, radio communications, and the use of navigation systems/facilities and radar services appropriate to instrument flight;

a CFI is able to give those 3 hours of instruction. Anything beyond private pilot is the realm of the CFII.

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    $\begingroup$ Please show me where a CFI (not instrument instructor) may not provide training towards an instrument rating? (They may, they just can provide all of it, and a CFII must provide 15 hours and the flight test recommendation. Also, a CFI may provide instrument competency training for someone in the form of recurrent training. They may also provide recurrent instruction, with the student performing approaches, enroute operations, etc. I believe your answer is incorrect. Also, I hold a CFIAMI, and I have preped over 100 CFI applicants and almost as many CFII applicants. $\endgroup$ – mongo Mar 18 at 13:03
  • $\begingroup$ I just did show you. In 61.195(c). The question was regarding instrument instruction leading to an instrument rating. If you have a separate question regarding CFI training ask it elsewhere. $\endgroup$ – Bronco6363 Mar 19 at 17:54
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Of the 40 hours required of actual or simulated instrument flight by the instrument student only 15 are required to be with a CFII. See regs published in the question.

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  • $\begingroup$ @mongo The reg states: 40 hours of simulated or actual instrument TIME. Of that, 15 hours MUST BE WITH A CFII. The other 25 hours could be "hood-time" with a safety pilot. Get a private pilot buddy and go bore holes in the sky for 25 hours. If you spend 25 hours of hood time or actual IFR with a CFI, it DOES NOT count as instruction. The instrument instruction MUST BE with a CFI-I, I don't know how to make this any clearer. You are setting people up for a FAA violation with your misinformation. $\endgroup$ – Bronco6363 Mar 19 at 18:04
  • $\begingroup$ @Bronco6363 I agree with you. There is a requirement of 15 of instrument instruction with a CFII. There is no requirement to receive 40 hours of instruction under simulated or actual flight. $\endgroup$ – wbeard52 Mar 19 at 18:07

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