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I just got my private pilot license and I want to build-up time with another private pilot

lets say I am acting as a safety pilot and we make a flight of 3.7, and his time under the hood was 3.4 in C172

1-as a safety pilot, what is my total durain time?

2- as a safety pilot, am I going to log PIC, or SIC? and how much?

I keep getting different answers. It would be really appreciated if you cite your source.

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  • $\begingroup$ @Pondlife - The answer to the question you refer to as a duplicate narrows the answer to logging of PIC time. SIC time can be logged under specific circumstances as noted in several FAA Legal Interpretations. Therefore, I suggest this question not be flagged as a duplicate since the full answer to the question is more broad than the previously answered, more narrow, question. $\endgroup$
    – user22445
    Commented Oct 7, 2018 at 15:40
  • $\begingroup$ Hi @757toga, if it's the same question, and the older one has a limited answer, the correct thing to do is to submit the more thorough answer to the older question. $\endgroup$
    – user14897
    Commented Oct 7, 2018 at 20:53
  • $\begingroup$ @757toga That's a good point and I admit I didn't really take account of the SIC aspect. But my personal opinion is that we already have enough PIC/SIC/safety pilot logging questions here, so I followed ymb1's suggestion and added a new answer to the other question, that covers both PIC and SIC time (at least in the most common situation that everyone seems to ask about). If there's a better way to handle this then I'm absolutely open to it, of course. $\endgroup$
    – Pondlife
    Commented Oct 7, 2018 at 23:29
  • $\begingroup$ @ymb1 FYI, see my comment to 757toga (can't tag more than one person in a comment!) $\endgroup$
    – Pondlife
    Commented Oct 7, 2018 at 23:30
  • $\begingroup$ @Pondlife - After I've commented, I remembered that merging is a thing and asked the mods in a flag to merge the new answers (below) with the old question. So there's that option as well. If you disagree -- I don't know much about the topic but I trust your badge :) -- let me know and I'll retract the flag. $\endgroup$
    – user14897
    Commented Oct 7, 2018 at 23:35

3 Answers 3

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Based on the scenario you present above:

While your partner is under the hood and you are acting as the "safety pilot" you may log PIC time or SIC time. Your partner, who is under the hood, may log PIC time as the sole manipulator of the controls.

However, there are a couple of nuances you should be aware of in the application of the rules under FAR Part 61.51 relating to the logging of PIC or SIC time when acting as a Safety Pilot (a required crewmember position under FAR 91.109).

I'm attaching two FAA Legal Interpretations that speak to your question as well as a link from the AOPA on this subject. Hope this helps.

Legal Interpretations:

  1. logging of flight time-1
  2. logging of flight time-2

Link to AOPA info:

logging of flight time-3

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Assuming that you have a single-engine land certificate, you can log PIC time if, per §91.109

(c) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least:

(i) A private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown; or

You do not have to have endorsements for the particular aircraft e.g. high performance, or complex as long as you are rated in the category and class. FAA Legal Interpretation Herman - Logging PIC (2009)

Although these endorsements are required before a pilot may act as a PIC of a high-performance and/or complex airplane, they are not required to log PIC time if the pilot is rated for and is the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft.

You may not log SIC time since the aircraft type does not require a second pilot. FAA Legal Interpretation Beaty - (2013) SIC Safety Pilot

Because the aircraft is type certificated for a single pilot, and because the operation does not require a designated SIC (e.g. an operation conducted under 14 c.P.R. § 135.101 which requires an SIC under IFR), Pilot B is a safety pilot and not an SIC.

You may log SIC time, though I don’t know why you would want to. Legal Interpretation louis glenn - (2009)

When a pilot is operating an aircraft in simulated instrument flight, 14 C.F.R. § 91.109(b), in relevant part, requires that a safety pilot, who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft, occupy the other control seat. Accordingly, Pilot B may log SIC time for the portion of the flight during which Pilot B acts as safety pilot because Pilot B was a required flight crewmember for that portion of the flight under § 91.1 09(b). The FAA previously has interpreted that a person acting as safety pilot for a portion of a flight may not log cross-country time because that person is not a required flight crewmember for the entire flight.

You may not log cross-country time since you haven’t taken off and landed. FAA Legal Interpretation Gebhart - (2009) Safety Pilot

In your example, Pilot A may log the entire flight (2.2 hours) of PIC flight time because that pilot was the sole manipulator of the controls for the entire flight. Pilot B may log the portion of the flight during which Pilot A operated in simulated instrument flight and Pilot B acted as the safety pilot (2.0 hours) because Pilot B was a required flight crewmember for that portion of the flight under 14 C.F.R. § 91.109(b).

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  • $\begingroup$ @JScarry- look at footnote #1 in the (2013) Beaty interpretation regarding the logging of SIC time, which is permitted. $\endgroup$
    – user22445
    Commented Oct 7, 2018 at 15:27
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Yes you can log time as safety pilot where you are taking legal responsibility for maintaining VFR separation during hood practice. Otherwise it has to be a multi-crew situation by operating rules or due to the aircraft type. This covers it pretty good. https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/learn-to-fly/logging-cross-country-time/logbooks-and-logging-time

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  • $\begingroup$ Can you edit this to point out that you can log PIC time for the time during which you're the actual PIC and the other pilot is "under the hood"? As it is, it sounds like you're saying that the safety pilot can never log PIC time, which isn't true. $\endgroup$
    – Sophie Swett
    Commented Oct 7, 2018 at 14:17

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