# To do the holding pattern or not?

So for the plate, if we were approaching from the southwest on the ILS or the LOC/DME, would we have to conduct that holding pattern if we were cleared for the approach before reaching the IAF (not a straight in, not vectored, not timed, etc.)? Also, the MAP would be TFD 7.5 DME correct? How do I confirm that is the MAP?

• @mins If you're cleared for the approach but the controller didn't clear you "straight in" then you still have to fly the hold (unless one of the other exceptions applies, as the OP said). That's what the page you linked to says, by the way. I suspect in this case it's required because of the obstacles, especially the ones to the southwest: the hold gives you a way to descend safely. – Pondlife Oct 8 '17 at 13:45
• A controller can clear you for the procedure. He cannot modify what is published by declaring it "straight in." The hold here is required. – acpilot Oct 8 '17 at 18:57
• @acpilot - I interpreted the asker's language to mean "receiving vectors to final", which would not require the hold-in-lieu-of-procedure-turn. – Steve V. Oct 8 '17 at 20:17

# Yes, you have to fly the hold.

If you're cleared for the approach, but you're not getting vectors to the final (or one of the other things you mentioned), the approach begins at the Initial Approach Fix (in this case, TFD) and you need to fly the full procedure, which will include the hold.

# No, the missed approach point is 1,743 MSL (It's 7.5 DME for a localizer approach)

This is an ILS approach, so you go missed when you arrive at decision altitude and don't have one of the three required elements to descend further:

• Visibility
• Safe descent to landing
• At least one of the required runway environment elements in sight

If you're shooting it as a localizer approach, you go missed when you cross the localizer and the needle flips. at 7.5 DME, a maneuver which is badly illustrated on this chart. Thanks TomMcW!

• To be pedantic about language, it is correctly called a "hold-in-lieu-of-procedure-turn" but in this answer I'm just calling it a hold. – Steve V. Oct 8 '17 at 20:19
• Did you really mean when you cross the localizer? That doesn’t really make sense to me. When you say the needle flips Which needle are you referring to? – TomMcW Oct 8 '17 at 22:17
• @TomMcW - Yep, I really did mean when the airplane passes over the localizer antenna. The CDI ("needle") will momentarily go to full scale deflection, indicating that you've crossed the localizer and it's time to go missed. I think that the to/from indicator may also flip, but I'm not positive about that. – Steve V. Oct 9 '17 at 2:02
• So the MAP is at the far end of the runway? Can you provide a citation on that? Every other place I find says that the 7.5 DME is the MAP if not using the GS – TomMcW Oct 9 '17 at 2:11
• @TomMcW - Oooooops, I didn't notice that it was a LOC/DME approach rather than a pure LOC approach. Good catch! – Steve V. Oct 9 '17 at 2:51