In a footnote to Administrator v Strobel, the NTSB states:

Our precedent makes clear that, “[r]egardless of who is manipulating the controls of the aircraft during an instructional flight, or what degree of proficiency the student has attained, the flight instructor is always deemed to be the pilot-in-command.” Administrator v. Hamre, 3 NTSB 28, 31 (1977). This principle was reaffirmed in Administrator v. Walkup, 6 NTSB 36 (1988).

THE PILOT IN COMMAND AND THE FARS: THE BUCK STOPS HERE (ALMOST ALWAYS) has some other examples of determining who is PIC and also refers to Hamre.

I can’t find either one on the NTSB site or with a search. Does anyone have a copy or a link to Hamre or Walkup?

  • $\begingroup$ @mins It might be helpful if you explain (answer or comment) how you found the Hamre order, that looks like the main question. $\endgroup$
    – Pondlife
    Jul 28, 2017 at 13:13
  • $\begingroup$ @mins I found Hamre and Moeslein but can’t find Walkup with your link. If I try to go directly to the NTSB site that you are searching, I need a login ID and password. Is there somewhere on the site where you can get one? $\endgroup$
    – JScarry
    Jul 28, 2017 at 14:18
  • $\begingroup$ @mins Another question. Hamre is referenced as 3 NTSB 28, 31 (1977) but the order number is EA-4232. How do you find the order number from the reference? $\endgroup$
    – JScarry
    Jul 28, 2017 at 14:19
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ Here is the opinion and order from Hamre. $\endgroup$
    – Ron Beyer
    Jul 28, 2017 at 14:29
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @JScarry here are some excerpts from Walkup, I'm looking for the entire case because I too am interested. justhelicopters.com/Portals/5/NTForums_Attach/… $\endgroup$
    – Devil07
    Jul 28, 2017 at 15:53


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