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61.65 says an instrument applicant must have 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time, 15 of which must be from an authorized instructor. What about the remaining 25 hours? Someone without an instrument rating can't file and go fly an IFR flight, right?


marked as duplicate by Pondlife, Ralph J, fooot, mins, reirab Mar 10 '16 at 20:57

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    $\begingroup$ You can't fly on an instrument flight plan, but you can practice IFR procedures using a safety pilot, which does not have to be a CFI. $\endgroup$ – Ron Beyer Mar 10 '16 at 18:24
  • $\begingroup$ @Pondlife why is it bad if there is a duplicate answer? The questions are worded much differently, in my opinion my question is more clear than the question you linked to. Sometimes there may be a duplicate answer for two different questions. I think that is ok as long as it is not the exact same question which was already answered. $\endgroup$ – jskypilot Mar 10 '16 at 19:57
  • $\begingroup$ @jskypilot You can read more here but basically, most SE sites are trying to find the best answer to a given question, and dupes can make finding that answer confusing and difficult. Even if this question is closed as a dupe, it will still be here and searchable, so people can still use it as a stepping stone to the definitive answer. $\endgroup$ – Pondlife Mar 10 '16 at 20:03

The 25 hours that are not required to be "instrument instruction" may be flown under the hood with a safety pilot. This is the usual way to accumulate some of the simulated instrument time.

I believe this time may also be flown & logged in actual IMC with an instrument rated pilot acting as PIC (their name on the flight plan, etc.) and the instrument student acting as sole manipulator of the controls, but you may prefer to conduct your actual IMC practice with an instructor.

  • $\begingroup$ Unless, the "sole manipulator of the controls" is a required flight crewmember, that time cannot be logged. FAR 61.51 A non-instrument rated pilot cannot log instrument time in IMC without a CFI unless she/he is a required crew member. $\endgroup$ – STWilson Jun 6 '17 at 20:58
  • $\begingroup$ @STWilson I'm looking at 14 CFR 61.51 and that doesn't seem to be true. 61.51(e)(1)(i) states that a private pilot may log PIC time when they are the sole manipulator of controls for an aircraft they're rated in. 61.51(g)(1) states that instrument time can only be logged in simulated or actual instrument conditions. I don't see anything in 61.51 supporting your statement. $\endgroup$ – Timber Swett Jul 15 '18 at 4:41

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