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Let's say an IFR flight was planned to depart from a non-towered airport with class G airspace extending from the surface to 700 feet AGL. The flight visibility and ceiling both go down to 0. Can the pilot get an IFR clearance?

If the airport had class E airspace from the surface up it would be in controlled airspace from the ground and I'm positive that an IFR clearance could be issued allowing IFR flight in that class E airspace right from takeoff.

In the case of class G airspace from the ground, the airspace is uncontrolled. Could an IFR clearance be issued that allows IFR flight and waives the basic VFR weather minimums for class G airspace?

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The key point is in your last sentence:

In the case of class G airspace from the ground, the airspace is uncontrolled.

Uncontrolled airspace is, well, uncontrolled. An appropriately rated, current pilot, in an appropriately equipped aircraft, may fly IFR in class G airspace without either a clearance or a flight plan. There are no clearances to waive VFR minima in class G, because the flight is conducted under IFR.

If an entire flight is flown in class G airspace, a pilot does not need to talk to a controller at all. When class G airspace is overlaid by controlled airspace, like class E, the pilot will need a clearance before entering controlled airspace. The controller will provide a clearance (FAA Order 7110.65, p. 4-3-2):

WHEN ENTERING CONTROLLED AIRSPACE (instruction), FLY HEADING (degrees) UNTIL REACHING (altitude, point, or fix) BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE.

Once the pilot is released for departure, they would depart IFR in class G, where they would be responsible for their own terrain and traffic clearance (using tools like an Obstacle Departure Procedure). As soon as they climb into class E airspace, they receive the benefits and responsibilities of flying in the ATC system.

An interesting border case is raised by wbeard52. In this case, a pilot departed a class G airport with class E starting at 700 AGL, and broke out of the clouds before entering controlled airspace. The ruling basically said that taking off in this situation without a clearance is not explicitly illegal, but falls under "careless or reckless operation" prohibited by FAR 91.13.

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    $\begingroup$ I heartily disagree that you can conduct an entire flight under IFR in class G airspace. I know this is old, but as the accepted answer here it comes up as the second hit on a Google search of IFR in class G airspace. I am disappointed that there is no commentary challenging this assertion. So, I hearby challenge you to explain how conducting an entire flight under IMC in Class G airspace could be legally considered IFR vs a violation of VFR cloud clearance requirements. $\endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 19:57
  • $\begingroup$ P.S. Your explanation should include a description of how one would maintain safe and appropriate separation from other IFR traffic in the Class G. $\endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 20:50
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    $\begingroup$ @MichaelHall Whatever is not prohibited is permitted. What regulation do you think would prohibit conducting an entire flight under IMC in Class G airspace? Note that 14 CFR § 91.173 prohibits IFR in controlled airspace without a clearance, but not in uncontrolled airspace. $\endgroup$
    – Sophie Swett
    Commented Feb 11, 2020 at 15:08
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    $\begingroup$ Outside the US, uncontrolled enroute IFR in class G is common practice. For terrain avoidance, there are the Instrument Flight Rules. For traffic avoidance, you can either rely on the big sky / small airplane theory, which in sufficiently desolate areas is not very risky compared to e.g. the risk of engine failure, or use air-to-air frequencies to mutually deconflict without any ATC involvement (e.g. 126.7 MHz in Canada). These days we have ADS-B as well. This sort of practice is almost impossible to do safely and legally in the continental US. $\endgroup$
    – pericynthion
    Commented May 13, 2020 at 22:44
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    $\begingroup$ If a pilot calls for clearance from an uncontrolled airport, as long as there is no conflicting traffic, the clearance is simply, "N1234 cleared from the XXX airport to the YYY airport as filed, climb and maintain 6,000, squawk 1234, clearance void...." It doesn't matter the weather at the airport. There doesn't need to be, "Upon entering controlled airspace..." You will receive IFR separation from all other IFR aircraft (including XXX arrivals who may have descended below controlled airspace). $\endgroup$
    – RetiredATC
    Commented Apr 3, 2022 at 0:17
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Let's say an IFR flight was planned to depart from a non-towered airport with class G airspace extending from the surface to 700 feet AGL. The flight visibility and ceiling both go down to 0. Can the pilot get an IFR clearance?

Yes. The ATC clearance will use the words "when entering controlled airspace"...

Is it legal to takeoff from a Class G airport with less than 1 sm visibility?

I don't know. Here is an interesting ALJ decision from one pilot who did that. Although, his specifics are just a little different. An excerpt from the decision. Case 3935.

Respondent has appealed from the oral initial decision issued by Administrative Law Judge Joyce Capps at the close of an evidentiary hearing held in this matter on July 8, 1991. In that decision the law judge found that respondent's takeoff from an uncontrolled airport into clouds without a clearance or release from air traffic control (ATC) was not a violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.155(a), but was in violation of 14 C.F.R. 91.13(a).

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    $\begingroup$ It's important to note that the ATC clearance begins upon entry into controlled airspace and NOT before. No separation services are provided until then. Another thing to note is that class G airports typically don't have departure procedures, so terrain/obstacle impact is a very real threat. $\endgroup$
    – newmanth
    Commented Oct 12, 2015 at 3:18
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    $\begingroup$ The only exception I've found to "class G airports don't have departure procedures" is KTNX -- but unless you're doing "black" things for the USAF or are a Janet pilot, good luck flying into/out of there! $\endgroup$
    – UnrecognizedFallingObject
    Commented Nov 24, 2015 at 0:52
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    $\begingroup$ Wow! Great find on Case 3935. I found the FAA's response both amusing and true With regard to respondent's assertion that, "[i]f anytime an aircraft enters clouds in uncontrolled airspace it is careless without a clearance then the FAR's should be changed," we note that it would be neither wise nor possible for the FAA to attempt to specifically prohibit every form of conduct that it considered careless. $\endgroup$
    – Canuk
    Commented Sep 7, 2016 at 5:42
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    $\begingroup$ Many Class D airports revert to Class G when the tower is closed. They usually have obstacle departure procedures. and often SIDs, depending on the surrounding terrain and obstacles. $\endgroup$
    – JScarry
    Commented Feb 11, 2017 at 16:35
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    $\begingroup$ @UnrecognizedFallingObject -- note however that the published minimum for the Corvallis Two departure from 35 lists a 400' ceiling, so clearly it is envisioned that the aircraft might be in cloud before reaching Class E airspace. Thanks for the clarification re KTNX all the same though. $\endgroup$
    – quiet flyer
    Commented May 13, 2020 at 23:51
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Most non-towered airports are Class G until 700 or 1200 AGL. There are MANY non-towered airports with IFR approaches and ODPs. Every time you descend while IMC into Class G on a published approach or depart on an ODP or Diverse Departure after being released for an IFR departure, you are legally flying in Class G while IMC.

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  • $\begingroup$ There is a good point being made here that ties in the accepted answer, with the one Ian W just made above. In the cases you describe the pilot would either be launching within an expected window of time whereby an IFR clearance would become active upon reaching controlled airspace, or entering uncontrolled airspace at the tail end of a published instrument approach procedure for which they are cleared. If neither of these conditions are met, you are not IFR. $\endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 19:51
  • $\begingroup$ @MichaelHall - although flying IFR in IMC in class G is generally and fundamentally an unsafe operation (in my opinion) it is at least (from a regulation perspective) contemplated as noted in FAR 91.179 "IFR cruising altitude or flight level, (b) - "In uncontrolled airspace...." $\endgroup$
    – user22445
    Commented Jul 18, 2021 at 23:02
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There is no doubt that the FAA envisions flight under Instrument Flight Rules in Class G airspace as something that may be done in compliance with the regulations.

For example, as another answer pointed out, page 4-3-2 of FAA Order JO 7110.65W gives an example of an IFR clearance containing the following language:

WHEN ENTERING CONTROLLED AIRSPACE (instruction), FLY HEADING (degrees) UNTIL REACHING (altitude, point, or fix) BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE.

Also, as another answer noted,

Most non-towered airports are Class G until 700 or 1200 AGL. There are MANY non-towered airports with IFR approaches and ODPs. Every time you descend while IMC into Class G on a published approach or depart on an ODP or Diverse Departure after being released for an IFR departure, you are legally flying in Class G while IMC.

Here are examples of approach and departure procedures published for an airport in full-time Class G airspace (Class E airspace begins at 700' AGL in this location) -- https://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KCVO/procedures

Another answer mentions a 1993 NTSB ruling finding that a pilot who took off in uncontrolled airspace in IMC conditions with no IFR clearance at all was in violation of FAR 91.13.

Page 5 of the same ruling states the following:

According to FAA aviation safety inspector Lawrence Smith, the standard procedure for taking off from an uncontrolled airport in IMC is to seek an ATC time-limited clearance to depart from the airport and fly into controlled airspace according to a pre-filed flight plan.

(italicization and bolding added)

Therefore the answer to the actual original question

Let's say an IFR flight was planned to depart from a non-towered airport with class G airspace extending from the surface to 700 feet AGL. The flight visibility and ceiling both go down to 0. Can the pilot get an IFR clearance?

is unambiguously "yes", at least if the pilot is operating under part 91. (For why this matters, see https://www.thinkaviation.net/standard-takeoff-minimums/ .)

If the original question were "Do the FAA and NTSB look favorably on flights conducted in IMC conditions in Class G airspace with no associated IFR clearance of any kind?", then the answer would have to be "no".

It does seem unfortunate that this latter point is not explicitly spelled out in the regulations. Likewise the issue of what actually is the distinguishing characteristic of a flight that is operating under "Instrument Flight Rules"-- is it simply the fact that an IFR clearance has been issued in association with the flight, or is it something else? These are apparently matters that have somehow "slipped through the cracks", just like the issue of clearly stating whether various regulations prohibiting certain activities in Class-E-to-surface airspace surrounding an airport also pertain to the airspace enclosed by a Class-E-to-surface "extension". (For example see Does FAR 91.155c apply to class E surface extensions? )

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  • $\begingroup$ Related-- see all answers -- aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/47569/… $\endgroup$
    – quiet flyer
    Commented May 18, 2020 at 18:02
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    $\begingroup$ I want to make clear that the "when entering controlled airspace" phraseology only indicates that ATC has authority in Class E airspace only. HOWEVER, this does not mean your IFR clearance only becomes active upon entering Class E airspace. For traffic separation purposes we treat you as IFR from the moment we say "cleared to," and after issuing an IFR release (even from a Class G airport) we will not issue any other IFR release from, or approach clearance into, that airport. Of course some other yahoo may depart IFR without a clearance and remain in G airspace, which we can't prevent. $\endgroup$
    – randomhead
    Commented Apr 3, 2022 at 0:40
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You ask: "Could an IFR clearance be issued that allows IFR flight and waives the basic VFR weather minimums for class G airspace?"

The answer to the first part of the question is an unequivocal YES. An IFR clearance that is effective within Class G airspace can be issued, and is in fact issued every single day across the NAS.

Whether that IFR clearance waives the basic Class G VFR weather minimums is a trickier conceptual problem. Since the receipt of an IFR clearance is not required to go below VFR weather minimums in Class G airspace, can it be said that having a clearance "waives" those minimums? As the other answers point out, probably not.

Having the IFR clearance means two things:

  1. When you enter Class E airspace and you have not suddenly broken out into weather conditions that meet the basic VFR minimums for that airspace, you are not in violation of the FARs.
  2. No one else in the vicinity of the airport will be operating on an IFR clearance, which provides a significant measure of safety as regards other air traffic.

Of course it is still possible that an aircraft could be operating under VFR in the vicinity of the airport, and they may even be operating under IFR despite not having a clearance—which is, strictly speaking, legal, although (as has been pointed out) it may be construed as "careless and reckless" depending on the particulars of the situation.

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  • $\begingroup$ Suggested edit-- the answer would be clearer to me as follows, but use your own discretion -- "Since the receipt of an IFR clearance is not required to go below VFR weather minimums while operating under IFR in Class G airspace..." $\endgroup$
    – quiet flyer
    Commented Apr 3, 2022 at 18:11
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If the flight is conducted entirely in class G airspace, then possibly.

Pilots operating an aircraft under Part 123 or Part 125 cannot do so as the it requires at least 1 NM visibility for an aircraft with 1-2 engines and at least 1/2 NM visibility for aircraft with more than two engines. Flights conducted under Part 91 operations allow for a departure under zero-zero conditions, though it is not advisable to do so.

If one does conduct the flight under Part 91 operations in Class G airspace in zero-zero conditions, an instrument rated pilot may depart into these conditions without an IFR clearance (though the pilot may want to have his/her head examined if they tried this!). It would not be permissible for any segment of this flight to enter controlled airspace in IMC without first filing a flight plan and obtaining an IFR clearance before entering.

On a side note, if you remained in hard IMC in class G airspace with all nearby airports in zero-zero conditions, you would not be able to land as I don't know of any such airports equipped with a CAT III-C ILS approach into it.

Departures into class G airspace with an Class E shelf overhead is commonplace. However the pilot must file an IFR flight plan prior to contacting either the local flight service station or clearance delivery from a nearby towered airport. Typically, the clearance will be issued with a clearance void time, meaning that the pilot must make the departure and make contact with an ARTCC befor that time or a new IFR clearance must be obtained.

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  • $\begingroup$ I disagree with your very first statement, but otherwise an excellent answer. (See my other comments on the "accepted" answer...) $\endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    Commented Feb 11, 2020 at 18:23
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A late response. Instrument Flight Rules require that the aircraft is under the control of a 'separation manager' usually ATC authorized to provide separation. ATC are not authorized to provide control in Class G airspace, so there is no separation from other traffic. The aircraft captain is therefore required to separate and keep well clear from other traffic. This is done by applying the Visual Flight Rules and VFR can only be flown in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC). Therefore, taking off in weather that makes staying VMC impossible is not legal. IFR cannot exist in Class G airspace.

In Class E airspace you can fly IFR and be required to maintain VFR separation from aircraft not flying IFR that the controller may not see.

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    $\begingroup$ The FAA responded to this question in 04/19/16 referencing a 1993 NTSB ruling: “91.173 requires an IFR flight plan and ATC clearance in ‘controlled airspace’ but is silent with respect to ‘uncontrolled airspace.’ Per this regulation and assuming an IFR capable aircraft and pilot, it would also be permissible to fly in IMC without a clearance. HOWEVER, 91.13 prohibits operating an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner, and the NTSB has previously ruled that under certain conditions, takeoff into clouds without a clearance or release was 'extremely dangerous' and in violation of 91.13(a).” $\endgroup$
    – Dean F.
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 19:09
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    $\begingroup$ The key phrase is “...under certain conditions...”. So, flight from Class G in IMC is technically legal even though it is actually stupid and reckless. The NTSB has grounds to take legal action if they choose. It is a grey area. $\endgroup$
    – Dean F.
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 19:12
  • $\begingroup$ By the way, welcome to AviationaStackExchange. feel free to Ask, Answer, and Comment on any topic. Just remember, unless you have something materially new or you can contradict the previously accepted posts with citations, to stick with answering active posts instead of dredging up ancient ones. $\endgroup$
    – Dean F.
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 19:15
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    $\begingroup$ He is contradicting the accepted answer, and I agree with this one. (I went in circles on another post regarding this issue.) There are certain key elements required to operate under Instrument Flight Rules. If you don't meet them you are not operating according to IFR, you are merely flying in IMC. There is a difference. $\endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 19:35
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    $\begingroup$ @IanW -- where in the FARs does it spell out that an aircraft flying under Instrument Flight Rules in uncontrolled airspace must be under the control of a "separation manager", or something similar? $\endgroup$
    – quiet flyer
    Commented Jun 9, 2020 at 9:13
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I just came across this thread searching IFR in Class G. It seems that the answers here are missing the question, "Can an IFR clearance be issued and flown through IMC in class G airspace?" This appears to be like asking if the roads from my house to the airport are icy, can an IFR clearance be obtained and driven on icy roads to the airport? Obviously ATC has no authority to grant nor deny any kind of clearance to drive on an icy road. Similarly, they have no authority pertaining to uncontrolled (class G) airspace. The fact you have an IFR clearance upon reaching controlled airspace is irrelevant to how you get to the controlled airspace. So the real question is (assuming class G goes up to 700 AGL), can I take off and climb to 700 feet AGL in IMC in class G? The answer depends on whether a reasonable person would view that as reckless. If it would be reckless, then the FARs prohibit it (91.13).

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    $\begingroup$ To reiterate what I've said in other comments, just because a clearance is not necessary to operate IFR in Class G does not mean an IFR clearance is impossible in Class G. An IFR departure who has been issued a release, and an IFR arrival who has been issued an approach clearance, "tie up" the airport; ATC will not issue approval for any other IFR operation once that release or clearance has been granted. The IFR clearance takes effect even though the aircraft is not in controlled airspace, at least from an ATC perspective. $\endgroup$
    – randomhead
    Commented Apr 3, 2022 at 0:45
  • $\begingroup$ Re --"So the real question is (assuming class G goes up to 700 AGL), can I take off and climb to 700 feet AGL in IMC in class G?" -- do you specifically mean without any IFR clearance being issued for the flight? A) If so, you should add this content to your answer. B) If not, how do you explain the fact that aircraft are flying under IFR in IMC in Class G airspace on a literally daily basis (granted, nearly always with some sort of IFR clearance being associated with the flight)-- see related answer aviation.stackexchange.com/a/92543/34686 for more. $\endgroup$
    – quiet flyer
    Commented Apr 3, 2022 at 18:18
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Interesting situation to fly IFR in class G. Class G has min VFR vis at 1 mi day. Less than 3 mi vis is classified IFR so to me it appears you are IFR even when flying VFR in class G.

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  • $\begingroup$ Do you have any sources to back up your answer? $\endgroup$
    – dalearn
    Commented May 13, 2020 at 22:02
  • $\begingroup$ There is a distinction between IFR and IMC. IFR means flying under instrument flight rules. IMC means Instrument Meteorological Conditions. Likewise VFR and VMC. You are only IFR if you have a clearance from ATC. As mentioned in the answers, departing in IMC without an IFR clearance is probably illegal and is definitely careless and reckless. Departing Class G in VFR conditions in the day means visibility of 1 mile and COC—3 mile is is clearly not IFR. $\endgroup$
    – JScarry
    Commented May 14, 2020 at 18:13
  • $\begingroup$ IFR conditions are classified as vis 1-3 mi and/or ceilings <1000 ft. LIFR is vis < 1 mi. This is an interesting subject and I have never seen anyone answer it to my liking even FAA ops inspectors. So to fly in class G at anything lower that 3 mi vis you are "flying VFR" in IFR conditions. IFR vis regulations do not change for class G or any other class airspace. $\endgroup$
    – user49536
    Commented May 14, 2020 at 23:31
  • $\begingroup$ I suggest you check up on what is or isn't IFR. Here is a start. aviationweather.gov/taf/help?page=plot Like it or not IFR conditions have always been 1<3mi vis. In class G <1200 ft FAA allows an exception to fly VFR COC in IFR conditions (was beneficial for ag spray) but by that variance it does not change the fact that 1<3 mi is classified IFR weather conditions. So my friend it is a paradox as I pointed out in the discussion. $\endgroup$
    – user49536
    Commented May 17, 2020 at 15:48
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    $\begingroup$ Re "IFR conditions are classified as vis 1-3 mi and/or ceilings <1000 ft."-- that's just a label. It has no controlling regulatory power in Class G airspace. In Class G airspace, if you have one mile visibility and can stay clear of the clouds, you are good to go under Visual Flight Rules. $\endgroup$
    – quiet flyer
    Commented Dec 7, 2020 at 14:39

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