If I only have a private pilot license, and am not the pilot in command, should I log my flight time?
If so, what are the limits of this? i.e. is that as true in the backseat as it is in the front seat? Must I have that type rating?
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$\begingroup$ Depends on what you want to document. $\endgroup$– user7241Commented Dec 25, 2017 at 11:56
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8 Answers
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No, you should not*.
In my opinion, you should limit your logbook to records of your own flight experience. This would include any time spent training, as PIC, or as required crew.
The time you can log as PIC is that which you spend as the sole manipulator of the controls, the sole occupant, or as the pilot in command when the required crew is >1. Here's an article from an FAA FSDO describing the logging of PIC time in more detail. Rod Machado has some good coverage of this as well.
If you're just hanging out in the airplane, it doesn't matter if you're in the front seat or the back seat. If you're receiving instruction, you should get an entry and a logbook endorsement from the instructor you're flying with. Most General Aviation aircraft don't require a type rating, so I'm unsure what the context of your final question is.
* It's worth noting that you can technically put whatever you want in your logbook, though it's not a great idea; when it comes time to fill out an FAA 8710 form for later ratings, it can get confusing. In my opinion, you still shouldn't log any time, but if you're just wanting to record flights that you took with friends, that's fine. As an instructor who's had to slog through some weird logbooks, I'd really, really encourage you to track that elsewhere, though. Your logbook is exactly that - it's your logbook, for the logging of your flight time, and a record of your flight experience and training.
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3$\begingroup$ Riffing on the point that you can technically put whatever you want into your logbook, it's worth noting that technically, any flight that starts at one airport and ends at another is a cross-country flight, even if they're only a few miles apart. However, for the purposes of getting certain licenses and ratings, only flights longer than 50nm can be counted. This can make a hash out of figuring out your cross-country time when applying for a new rating. I think it might simply be better not not even log the short cross-countries. $\endgroup$ Commented Dec 18, 2013 at 6:19
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8$\begingroup$ And riffing on that: the famous Dick Rutan/Deana Yeager round-the-world flight couldn't be logged as cross-country time because they landed at the same airport they took off from. $\endgroup$ Commented Dec 18, 2013 at 6:21
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4$\begingroup$ If you're looking to maintain a record of non flying time for whatever reason, just keep a second log book with those entries. It doesn't seem to be worth the confusion it could create. $\endgroup$– KyleCommented Dec 19, 2013 at 3:39
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1$\begingroup$ @Kyle Another option is to use a "spare" column in your logbook for passenger/non-PIC/"just having fun" time, and just not add it to "total duration of flight" or similar columns. $\endgroup$– voretaq7Commented Dec 27, 2013 at 6:24
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Yes, log it.
Your logbook is your record of your flight experience. Use a line in your logbook to remember a flight with a friend or a warbird flight you took at an air show. If I'm a passenger in the right seat of a small aircraft and I'm paying attention I am probably learning something. If I'm currently working towards my instrument rating and I'm sitting in the backseat of a friend's instrument rating lesson then I'm almost certainly learning things that I wouldn't get while actually flying the plane. Record those experiences for yourself.
However, the numbers columns for that entry are going to be empty. No landings, no flight time, none of that. You wouldn't want to accidentally use those flights for currency or ratings. AOPA has a good article interpreting the FARs rules on logging time.
But you can use an empty column for passenger numbers or just use your comments section.
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2$\begingroup$ I agree completely! I don't do it myself, but this is a totally valid answer for those who plan to do so. $\endgroup$– egidCommented Dec 18, 2013 at 23:36
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$\begingroup$ I love this answer. As a PPL student currently (almost done!) I can say that when I've gone up in the right seat with a non-CFI friend acting as PIC, even though I'm not required crew and not receiving qualified instruction, I'm learning and benefiting from the experience so I want to log it because that experience sets me apart from the next guy who doesn't have that experience. To avoid inadvertently counting those hours and landings for recency/currency, it does make sense not to put entries in those columns. $\endgroup$– hempCommented Jan 29, 2016 at 6:30
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$\begingroup$ Attempting to follow the advice in this answer is not allowed under the FARs. See my answer below. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6, 2016 at 16:45
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2$\begingroup$ That makes no sense, logically or per the FARs. What goes in your logbook is up to you / it is your logbook, not the FAAs. Their only concern is that you can back up the hours and endorsements you claim to have, there are no specifications stating what you can't put in a logbook. You can write short stories in it if you want to. Leave the hour columns blank for those flights where you weren't required crew or giving/receiving instruction and it's all gravy. $\endgroup$– hempCommented Feb 16, 2017 at 7:31
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2$\begingroup$ That said, if you do intend to make a career out of flying then you should treat everything in the aviation scope as a professional would. A professional would not write short stories in their logbook. What is permitted and what is wise are not always the same. For me, I have a lovely career outside of aviation and no intention of changing course, so my logbook is primarily kept for nostalgia and secondarily to prove I'm airworthy. $\endgroup$– hempCommented Feb 16, 2017 at 7:40
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Adding to what egid said, you can only log flight time as a crew member if you're filling a role as a required crew member.
There was an enforcement action many years ago against a pilot who was flying right seat in a small cargo plane because his employer's rules required two people in the cockpit. He figured that since his employer required him to be there, it made him a required crew member and so he logged the time.
However, the FAA regs did not require him to be there, so in their view, he was not a required crew member and they took action against him for falsifying his logs.
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2$\begingroup$ Please note that ive removed the extra question from your answer - it is kinda fun, but not the StackExchange way. Answers should only be answers. $\endgroup$– Jamiec ♦Commented Dec 18, 2013 at 9:39
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$\begingroup$ Fair enough. I'll ask in a comment then: when could all three people in a C172 log PIC time at the same time? $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 21, 2017 at 1:51
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To answer the original question no, you cannot log flight time as a passenger in an aircraft.
AOPA's website has a pretty good answer.
The PIC is, by Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs), responsible for the safe operation of the flight (FAR 1.1, 91.3). At any given time, there can only be one acting PIC on a flight, no matter how many pilots are on board the aircraft. To legally act as PIC, a private, commercial, and airline transport pilot must have a current medical certificate and have all required endorsements, ratings, and recency of experience for the type of aircraft being flown and the flight conditions under which the flight is conducted (FAR 61.3, 61.31, 61.56, 61.57). Sport pilots can act as PIC with a valid and current driver's license in lieu of the FAA medical (FAR 61.23). Before a flight is initiated, an agreement should be made to determine who is to be acting as PIC.
So you'll have to hold a current medical certificate for the type of flight operation being undertaken, the appropriate pilot certificate for type of flight operation being undertaken, and have sole manipulation of the flight controls of an aircraft you are properly endoresd or type-rated for.
answered Jul 6, 2016 at 16:21
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$\begingroup$ OK, now I'm confused. I thought if e.g. you were a licensed pilot receiving instruction, both you and the instructor would log PIC time. You, as the sole manipulator of the controls, and the instructor as the person responsible for the flight. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 21, 2017 at 1:53
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Yes, join a frequent flyer program and log "passenger miles". This will make you a better passenger with additional benefits. Of course, these logs document the passenger loyalty, not some needed experience.
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Should you log flight time as a passenger?
Pro:
Logbooks represent many things, including a record of time and training to be used toward future certificates and ratings, as well as currency to comply with various regulations.
What you write in your log book is up to you as long as you record the flight information for those flights needed to substantiate your time
Contra:
It is important that airmen are aware of regulations related to logbook records to avoid undue fines, or even suspension of their certificate/s!
you cannot log flight time as a passenger in an aircraft.
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I know this is an old question but anyway:
In previous answers it has clearly been stated, that one can not log flight time as a passeger.
What puzzles me is why would one do that anyway? Passenger does not fly the plane, but merely observes what is going on. Two very different things.
Yes some things can be learned just by looking at how other people do them, but flying is fundamentaly a multitasking excercise (although multitasking does actually not exist at all), and by simply looking at someone operating a plane, you get a dangerously simplified picture of what it's all about. Even if you already had a license. So there is actual danger in logging passenger time (or even just flights):
You will build yourself a false sense of competence. The only hours and minutes that matter are the ones that you fly the plane.
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1$\begingroup$ A friend encouraged me to log it after I sat in the right seat while he flew IFR and I was not rated. That didn’t seem right, so I wanted to know what the limits were. Agreed it’s a bad idea. $\endgroup$– JoeCommented Feb 20, 2020 at 1:00
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$\begingroup$ @Joe - You can log it as a private pilot if your friend is flying IFR in VMC while under the hood/foggles. Though, one of you has to be instrument rated to file an IFR flight plan. Since it’s VMC, a flight plan is not mandatory (in the US). $\endgroup$– Dean F.Commented Sep 24, 2020 at 18:37
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No. You're only supposed to log time when you are "manipulating the controls" i.e., PIC/SIC or as a rated crewmember. Safety pilots and many others can log time without touching the controls, but as a passenger, you have no role in the operation of the aircraft, and therefore cannot log time.
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1$\begingroup$ At least in the US, there are several ways to log PIC/SIC time without ever touching the controls. $\endgroup$– PondlifeCommented Mar 5, 2020 at 20:47